pioneer hdj-1000 vs technics rp-dh1200?? (2/3)
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trancegroove    posted on 04-05-2005 04:55
I have just cancelled an order for some Technics rp-dh1200...now I'm am reconsidering the pioneer hdj-1000.

The only real difference I see is that the technics has a removable cable on the outside of the headphone (which seems to be very convenient) and the Pioneer has it on the inside.

Anyone had any experience with both of these headphones?

Any other headphones to consider?

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User edit by trancegroove on 04-05-2005 @ 04:57:15 (10%)
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MaxvEck    posted on 23-01-2006 18:55
i agree with you about the sound and the build of the Sennheiser HD25 but it looks like nothing. if i were you i'd look for a Technics rp-dj1200 : sounds great and looks nice

(x-cuse me for my english )
Winston    posted on 23-01-2006 19:20
@MaxvEck
What we try to discuss is if you think the strenght/durability of a headphone is more important to a DJ than the looks. Are you willing to spend over EURO 100 every 3 months or not, to replace a broken headphone just for the looks?

Its very hard to see upfront if a new headphone will last for longer than say 3 years. The same brand, it doesn't matter if its Pioneer, Sony or Technics, can carry weak and strong headphones in their DJ line. That's why I look for the material with which they are making the top models with.

If its just for looks and sound quality you could better work with a consumer headphone. But I think for DJ's the headphones are a tool to work with. A DJ will put them on his head 100 times more in a year than a consumer.
Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 26-01-2006 @ 14:34:28 (3%)
MaxvEck    posted on 23-01-2006 19:39
winston :Are you willing to spend over EURO 100 every 3 months or not, to replace a broken headphone just for the looks?

It looks like you have never worked with the headphone i was talking about else you would know better.. And if you're headphone is broken it's usually because the user didn't treat it well.

winston :What we try to discuss is if you think the strenght/durability of a headphone

If you are careful with your headphone you can use it your whole life.

Winston    posted on 23-01-2006 19:50
Indeed, I did not have the pleasure to work with one of those. So how long do you work with yours. Be specific please: So many years ...... for so many hours ....... a day?

I don't want to be careful, because I concentrate on my mixing. I expect from the companies that they make strong DJ headphones. Thats not too much to ask and I'm willing to pay for it.

If I must just put on a headphone at the begining of my set and leave it on my head, I might as well use a normal consumer headphone as I mentioned before.

But I like to take it of because every headphone eventually get heavy, hot and sweaty if your set is long enough.
Tic Toc
Bradleybourbon    posted on 23-01-2006 19:58

User edit by Bradleybourbon on 23-01-2006 @ 20:02:48 (100%)
Bradleybourbon    posted on 23-01-2006 20:02
Poster: Bradleybourbon
Poster: Winston
I don't want to be careful, because I concentrate on my mixing. I expect from the companies that they make strong DJ headphones. Thats not too much to ask and I'm willing to pay for it.
 



I totally agree with you.  That was my whole point.  I am willing to pay almost any reasonable price a pair.   If I know they sound great and will last.
 
Winston    posted on 23-01-2006 20:32
@ MaxvEck
I've checked out the Technics you've mentioned on their website and indeed these have a good reputation, also if you look at durability.

But they would be my second choice because the earcups bend rather than rotate/swivel. I already mentioned in an earlier post that those kind of Technics are good. You don't have to be careful when your mixing. Just normal maintenance and care. Maybe this design should become the industry standard?

But the RP-DH 1200 doesn't have my trust yet.
Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 23-01-2006 @ 20:36:22 (13%)
MaxvEck    posted on 23-01-2006 21:02
no offence,

the RP-DH 1200 looks really road-unproof to me. I think the sennheiser is the best choice for you. Have you ever heard of the  Sony MDR-7509 the most people who worked with it were posetive about it and it's extremely strong and many radio dj's and road dj's use it because it fits nice and the sound suppost to be great. there's only one thing.. it's very expensive ( between 200/300 euro )

DJ_Aad    posted on 24-01-2006 12:44
I own the Sony MDR-7509 and it is really great! The sound is the best I ever heard (and I also own a Sennheiser HD-25)! Mine hasn't broken since I bought it a half year ago. Maybe this is because I always put it on my head like you're supposed to do (no quasimodo style), but it feels strong anyway. If you want the ultimate headphone, buy this one!
djmamo    posted on 24-01-2006 12:59
i think you must juse a headphone the way you like and if it's quasimodo style who cares?
www.moonentertainment.nl
DJ_Aad    posted on 24-01-2006 14:03
Nobody cares if you abuse your equipment, but it's all at your own cost...
Winston    posted on 25-01-2006 12:47
This is not a discussion anymore of a certain type of model or brand. The guy who started this tread already got himself a pair of RP-DH1200. Further I don’t intent to promote or trash any brand.

If you like to testify about a certain model please feel free to do so. But please also mention how long you got it and how often you use it and if your DJ-ing style is aggressive or not.

If you have a bad experience, tell us also when it happened. Was it when you accidentally put your record case on it or did you step on it, because in the heat of the mix you forgot that you just threw it on the floor?

Or you never abuse your headphone, but it just happened when you tried to put it quickly on your head. Just like me. Everyone who knows a little about physics knows that with speed, you develop G-forces. It seems that none of the brands take this enough into account.

First we have to agree that there is a huge difference between consumer and high end DJ headphones, that is as big as a family car and a Formula 1 bolide. If a brand promise a Formula 1 headphone, I expect that it will at least finish the race and that the driver (DJ) doesn’t blow the engine in the middle of the race. But it seems most headphone models of all the brands won’t do so.

If you have a real Formula 1 headphone that can finish the race, you’re very lucky. Also if you got a pimped family car, that looks like a Formula 1, but you only take it to cruise the boulevard, you're lucky. But please don’t tell me I have to be careful or treat them right, because I do, taking into account my style that you can compare with Formula 1 racing.

If you do simple back to back mixing, you could do it with the lollypop type headphone. But if you choose a pro headphone, it’s because of the different wearing styles it makes possible, and this is something that you really need if you do unplanned live remixing / experiments. You’re more concentrated on the mix to make everything work right, so you're not too careful about the speed and force you use to handle the headphone.

I noticed from the adds and press releases that the current Industry Standard consist of sound quality properties (frequency range 20Hz-25kHz or better, 50 mm drivers, gold plated ¼” plugs, etc), long detachable thus replaceble cord, elbow plug, large closed rotating ear cups with swivel (or bending like some Technics models) and light weight. Every brand can deliver this standard, the one better then the other. They should, because sound is their business. But applied mechanics is something else.

The point I’m trying to make is that a feature must be added to the Industry Standard for top end DJ headphones.

Light weight and strenght are features that work against each other. The average high end DJ headphone won’t last for more then six months, because the manufacturers think that we DJ’s find light weight more important than strenght or maybe some of them even don’t know how we use them.

In the space and aviation industry they have solutions for the opposing requirements of weight and strenght. So the brand that will put in its specs something like: ‘We use high tech composite materials or titanium from the space and aviation industry’, will win my heart.

Eventually all materials will break because of material fatigue. Therefore it would also be nice if the headphone doesn’t break suddenly, always in the middle of your set, but detoriates with time. So it gives you a visible warning that you must replace it. I would go for a minimum lifetime of 5 years, if you use it only every friday and saturday for six hours per night, for around max. EURO 200 off-factory. If the majority of users of high end professional DJ headphones, want a better Industry Standard, the manufacturers will make it.

So I would like the opinion of other DJ’s what they think is more important: headphone weight or strenght.

But in the mean time, if a designer or marketeer of one of the headphone manufacturers read this, please consider this. Or someone with influence on the R&D departments of DJ products, please tell them.

All you DJ’s who are working with high end DJ headphones, I look forward to your opinions if you want a better industry standard, although there are a few good phones out there.
Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 27-01-2006 @ 15:14:27 (1%)
djmamo    posted on 25-01-2006 12:56
ive got a sony mdr v700 and i'm jusing it every day.

I have the headphone fore 6 months and i have no complaines, and the way i juse it isnt soft.

but still havent found any complaines about it and the sound is very good, also after 6 months of hard laber.
www.moonentertainment.nl
Winston    posted on 25-01-2006 13:08
@ Djmamo
O.k. if you don't want a better standard for all high end DJ headphones I'll start a topic, next week or so, to follow your headphone, to see when it will break. Because 6 months is still pretty short. Then after a few years, we have a nice database and competition of the strongest high end DJ headphone.

I would like to call on DJ's Aad, Bradley Bourbon and MaxvEcks to post the following information on their headphones:

- how long you got it in months;
- how often you use it in average hours per week and
- your DJ-ing style agressive, intermediate or easy.

Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 25-01-2006 @ 13:09:37 (1%)
DJ_Aad    posted on 25-01-2006 13:31
I have mine (Sony MDR-7509) for 6 months now, using it 12 hours a week in a club. As I said I'm using my headphones as you're supposed to do: I put them on my head.
Winston    posted on 25-01-2006 13:33
Thank you for your info DJ Aad.  And 95% of the time I also just put it on my head.
I'm waiting for the others.

Also from all other owners and users of high end DJ headphones I would love to have information for the endurance test.
Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 25-01-2006 @ 13:57:53 (100%)
Ferry    posted on 25-01-2006 14:16
the best headphone is the one without all the movement...
if you can flip the speakers, or bend it in any direction, things WILL EVENTUALLY break, no matter it says Pioneer, Sony, Technics or whatever, that's just a fact.
Nothing can stand the forces of the physics law...

The Pioneer SE-450 though.... This baby, wich I own for allmost a decade now, have NEVER failed me! If there's one headphone that has it all, the SE-450 got it!

AKG is a "new"brand, they make headphones simular to the SE-450.
I tried one pair a few months ago, they really blow your ears, but it has an on/off switch that's mounted on the headrest. So if tou are small headed, or you put the headphone in your neck, it will automaticly mute the sound.
I tried the k271i monitor headphone.
also check www.akg.com   there's more to explore!
User edit by Ferry on 25-01-2006 @ 14:16:53 (2%)
Winston    posted on 25-01-2006 14:35
Thank you for the information Ferry. I'll check out the models you mentioned. How often you use the SE-450?

And don't you want the manufacturers to focus on a stronger headphone, with movement in all directions?
Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 25-01-2006 @ 14:41:34 (22%)
Ferry    posted on 25-01-2006 14:46
A stronger headphone will mean a higher price. And i'm not shure if people are willing to pay more than €300,- on a set of headphones....
So if the price is the same, but they are stronger, they have to let go of another really important feature on a headphone... Sound...
And let's say, if a headphone works for 3 year, why do you have to make a stronger one... It also has to do with the owner, how carefull he/she is.
Winston    posted on 25-01-2006 14:57
I'm willing to pay. I figured if I need 2 pairs of EURO 125 each year, after 3 years I have spend EURO 375.

And I think they have to make it stronger, because the average high end HF will not last 3 years. That's the problem!

If the majority of DJ's are happy with the current situation the companies won't make them stronger. And if enough DJ's buy them they can be cheaper.

Else I have to look for the strongest high end DJ headphones. That's why I'm trying to make a database of the strongest high end DJ HF's, just for DJ's like me.


I checked the SE-450, but it seems they don't sell them new anymore.

Tic Toc
Ferry    posted on 25-01-2006 15:01
the se-450 is discontinued, check the link on this site:
////www.djresource.eu/Topics/story/39/Pioneer_SE-450/

but the akg's are new!
Winston    posted on 25-01-2006 15:15
Yeah, you can see both of them are build as a tanks. If I mix/cue 20 tracks per hour and each time taking it on or off my head, they will still survive a lifetime.

But I like the swivel, because when the HF is around my neck, I prefer, sometimes,  to take one cup for a quick listen during a transition. And I believe every manufacturer with some self-respect can make it possible in every high end HF they make. And then I wouldn't need to make an endurance database.
Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 25-01-2006 @ 15:28:08 (59%)
Bradleybourbon    posted on 26-01-2006 04:44
I wouldnt say i own high end headphones.  I would say my style of dj-ing is somewhat agressive.  I do not throw my headphones around but I do not treat them like they are made of glass either.

I use my headphones about 20-40 hrs a week.  I have had my technics for almost 6 months now.  At first I was really careful with them, after what happened with the last 2 sets of phones I had.  I can really tell these are a way better product durability wise though.  So I do not forsee the same problem with these.
 
Winston    posted on 26-01-2006 12:56
Thanks Bradleybourbon. This info will be brought into the test if the last DJ will post his info. I got yours, Aad's, Ferry's and Mamo's. Now I'm waiting for MaxvEcks's input.

And ofcourse everybody else who wants to help with the test.
Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 26-01-2006 @ 17:24:59 (2%)
Winston    posted on 26-01-2006 18:10
@ Ferry
This AKG K 181 PRO DJ Headphone looks awefully hot. But what's more important is that AKG mentions that its swivel (3D Axis) is rugged built. The headband is attached with screws, but the joint/hinge at and the part to the earcups looks very, very, almost scary, thin.


AKG K 181 DJ Headphone


Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 26-01-2006 @ 18:13:24 (2%)
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