adding effex to a xone 62
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mighty    posted on 21-07-2006 21:30
hi.

I am thinking of buying a xone 62 because of the build and sound qualities and adding fx later. After visiting my local shop they said that because there is no send and return you cant incorperate fx

Is this true? if not, how can it be done and will i still be able to assign the effect to a particular channel. Im thinking about the efx 500 or 1000 and already have a boss sp202 sample which i would like to link up.

Thanks guys.

the-melody    posted on 21-07-2006 21:38
non true... You can still set the efx between the xone and your ampleflier. With the master out on your mixer you go into the efx(input) and than you take the output to your ampleflier. Hmmm i shall take beter an lesson englisch
Mimoza    posted on 21-07-2006 21:45
The Xone 62 has an aux bus, so that you can connect your external efx to the aux and let it come back in the mixer on one of the 6 channels...
kiss the future
ciderke    posted on 21-07-2006 21:52
Poster: the-melody
Hmmm i shall take beter an lesson englisch
[/blockquote]
yes, that's necessary . But I think he's right. You have to put your effector between your mixer and your amplifier. In my opinion, the only disadvantage is that you can't hear the effect beforehand in your phones. Pre-cue as they say.
 
mighty    posted on 21-07-2006 23:44
sorry for the laye reply guys.

would this combination be better than  the djm 600. i know the sound build would of higher stanards, but what about flexibilbily for being creative.

P.s melody, dont worry about the english mate, atleast you can speak two languages  10/10
Winston    posted on 22-07-2006 03:42
There are a lot of other things you should take into consideration if you want to compare the DJM-600 and Xone:62. If you supply us with your Terms of Reference for your mixer, maybe we can help.

But with regard to your question about connecting an effector to the Xone:62, I can assure you that this is possible. Every mixer of the Xone series has at least one aux output per channel. The Xone:62 has one aux output per channel. As Mimoza said earlier you can use one of the line channel inputs as return.


Keep in mind that there are 4 ways to hook up sound processors like effectors, samplers, filters, etc.:

1. output mixer send - effector - input mixer return
2. output mixer send - effector - input mixer line (you'll need enough channels, Xone:62 has enough for you I suppose)
3. output source (eg. cd player) - effector - input line (you'll need an processor for each deck, advantage is sound processing on more than one channel simultanuously)
4. output mixer master - effector - input amplifier (only master level processing, PFL monitoring is not possible)

Your local shop has not enough technical knowledge about their products. Maybe you could teach them for a little price reduction.

With regard to flexibility for creativity with efx, between the DJM-600 and Xone:62 there are no major differences.

Maybe the Xone:62 is better, because you can assign more channels simultanuosly and control the individual levels of them, which you send to the effector, and you can use the crossfader for wet and dry control / balance. But practically you wouldn't do that ever. Maybe?

If you can afford a little more, I would recommend the Xone:92. This mixer has 2 aux per channels, and 2 returns, so you can hook up your sampler plus the EFX-1000.
Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 22-07-2006 @ 03:54:12 (47%)
mighty    posted on 22-07-2006 10:23
hi winston,

if i hooked it up with output mixer send - effector - input mixer line would i be able to hear the effect through the headphones.

Also what is meant by 'terms of reference' because you know your stuff and yes i would really appreciate your help.

Yeah those guys in the equipment shop (one of the biggest in the UK) said 'allen and heath put no send or return on any of their mixers because they didnt want people messing with the sound by putting other equipment such as fx on it.
i thought that sounded a bit weird

If i got the 92 i would pushing for the fx cos of the price of the mixer. I was contemplating either the 62 with the efx 500 or 1000 or djm 800.

I know that the djm 800 is the biggest thing at the moment but i am slighty concerned about to two factors. Firstly, it has not been road tested yet, so we dont know what could go wrong with it later. There is also alot going on inside the mixer and with fine circuitry it it did pop it would cost alot to repair.

With the allen and heath and fx combo i would be assured of a solid mixer and and solid fx.

As you seem to know alot more than me, i would really apreciate your opinion on this one aswell.

Finally, just to clarify, i can only hook one peice of external hardware to the 62 at a time?

I am really sorry for the heavy questions, but i have been looking for these kind of straight answers for ages, plus you sound like you really know what your talking about so thanks again.

mighty.

mighty    posted on 22-07-2006 10:28
oh yeah,

With the mixer i will be running 3 1210s and 2 cdj 1000s if that helps with answering my questions.
Winston    posted on 22-07-2006 15:00
Hey Mighty, do you visit what are considered to be the hottest dance clubs in the world located in Birmingham?

Back on topic:

A&H_Xone:62


if i hooked it up with output mixer send - effector - input mixer line would i be able to hear the effect through the headphones.

Yes, the signal will be treated just as every other line input signal. Just hit the cue button of that channel, before you start previewing the efx.


Also what is meant by 'terms of reference'

Big companies are used to establish Terms of Reference (ToR), if they buy expensive equipment. This is also the case with services, or roads, buildings, bridges etc. They may call it something different ofcourse. And for expensive DJ equipment this should also be the case, at least in your head.

A ToR is a complete list of requirements the product must meet. This reduces the risks of disappointments later on.

For a mixer you should mention in the ToR:
purpose: ofcourse not: "to mix music sounds", but a statement of your main music style, the way you mainly do your transitions, will you use onboard or external efx and samplers, how does it fit with other gear in your booth, bedroom, club, mobile or production use, desired sound quality, looks, after sale service, guarentee, budget, motivation, experience, current set up, future plans, etc.

Then you can specify the specs for the mixer section, headphone section, cross fader section, efx section, sampler, send/return(s) section, other features.

e.g. mixer section: you already told us that you will hook up 3 SL's and 2 CDJ's.

Then also what trade offs you are willing to make, as it is seldom the case you can have it all.


... the equipment shop (one of the biggest in the UK) said 'allen and heath put no send or return on any of their mixers because they didnt want people messing with the sound by putting other equipment such as fx on it.

Yep, total crap. Allen & Heath is pretty innovative. They even built the Xone:VF-1 filter unit to add to their mixers.


If i got the 92 i would pushing for the fx cos of the price of the mixer. I was contemplating either the 62 with the efx 500 or 1000 or djm 800.

I see you're point. It's cost vs efx features. The costs of the set up with the Xone:92 combined with an EFX 500 would be staggering. And then ofcourse the Xone:62 with EFX-500 is in the same price range as one DJM-800 without effector. And what is more important you got more or less the same capabilities.

You're ToR will help determine what's best for your purpose. But for now I would say, with the DJM-800 you have everything in one nice package.


... the djm 800 is the biggest thing at the moment but i am slighty concerned about to two factors. Firstly, it has not been road tested yet, so we dont know what could go wrong with it later. There is also alot going on inside the mixer and with fine circuitry it it did pop it would cost alot to repair.

Yeah, the DJM-800 is the biggest thing, but keep in mind that it is just a hype. You're ToR should determine what mixer you need and not fashion.

Pioneer has a good reputation of solid built products, so it is safe to assume that this will also be the case for the DJM-800.

For all equipment with fine circuitry you should consider surge protection. Then generally you shouldn't face any technical problems within the products life time.


With the allen and heath and fx combo i would be assured of a solid mixer and and solid fx.

Ofcourse you're right.


... to clarify, i can only hook one peice of external hardware to the 62 at a time?

If you're set up must be "mixer output send - mixer input line": Generally, yes; only one piece of sound processing equipment.

But you can also do: "mixer output send - sampler - EFX-1000 - mixer input line."
You won't be able to use both independantly at the same time. However it is possible to use both independantly if it is not at the same time. But you can also assign efx to the sampler. Make sure your sampler has a "through out" or "bypass."

Also you can do (if you can afford): "output source (tt or cd deck) - EFX 500 - mixer line input." This can be done for all six channels. This will give you the most performance capabilities.

But that's why I like the Xone:92 best. For now, I'm planning to buy one in the future. It is really the only DJ mixer I know now that has 2 send and returns and 2 independant filters, despite that the lay -out is perfect. Ofcourse there are more expensive mixers with more sends such as the DJM-1000 if I'm correct. The only thing is that you can't assign the returns of the Xone:92 to the crossfader. But you can do some monitoring with you're headphones.

For now I'm using my, compared to the Xone:92, cheap mixer while I'm saving. Remember that it is all about the music and not the gear.

Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 23-07-2006 @ 00:37:32 (9%)
mighty    posted on 23-07-2006 22:06
hi winston,

The club scence in birmingham pretty good, i go to miss moneypennies, the custard factory and smaller venues in the arcadian which is nice because its more personal. i went to the works afew weeks back and that place pretty crazy, loads of floors and rooms very with like an 80's vision of what a club today would look like (loads of shinny metal).

Where are you from?


Thanks for the explanation of ToR is really does help with the decision making.

This is my list of requirments,

1. solidity, because i want assurance that its not going to break in a year and a half.

2.flexibility. abilty to further creativity.

3. Sound quality (tricky 1)

4. FX. I have haven't used fx much because my other mixer didnt provide that possibility. I usually use other records and the eq to mash things up abit. I would like fx because i would like to see how far i could go with them.

I am not worried about having to learn loads of buttons and combo's. Learning is what makes the whole process fun, the longer it takes to master, the longer the enjoyment, in my opinion.

the gauantee is a big deal for me cos of the cost,

Apprerance does matter, but motivation is important.

I also have an sp 202 sampler which i wanted to add to the mixer with the fx. I dont scratch, i play tech trance marco v style music so the fader option don't bother me greatly.

One more important note is that the mixer will be used in my home set up only. Someone said to me that djm 600 doesnt sound as good as the 62 but that i wouldnt notice at home the differnce in the home. Is that true? Is there really a massive audial difference between them both.

The 600 would be great if the sound quality was good. I would get a solid mixer with fx at a reasonable price.

Appologies again for the late reply, i have working long hours recently and get on the comp as soon as time permits.

Cheers Winston mate.

Ps what is your style? What is your opinion on fx and why would you not go for the djm 800? do you intend to apply fx ti the 92?

Mighty.

Winston    posted on 24-07-2006 14:24
Well Mighty, I don’t want to set you off, but you don’t need to put saluations and signings in all your posts. That gives everyone the chance to reply to you. You also don’t have to apoligize for late replies, as long as you give feedback. And please tell when you've made your final decision.  It’s also possible that I’m not available for weeks.

Hmm, I didn’t hear before about the clubs you’ve mentioned. I’m looking for the best clubs in the world you see. The Cream parties in Amnesia seem to be the clubbers Mecca and I want to party there at least once in my life. But Ibiza has got expensive and too commercial I heard, so I’m also looking elsewhere. So I thought maybe you could show me around in the UK and do some serious club hopping together.

I live in Paramaribo, one of the smaller cities of the Caribbean. That’s why you see the blue flag. Would you like to check out my profile as well as yours? There is probably a bug in this section if you’re foreign. I’ve asked DJ Martin to check it, but he didn’t reply.

The club scene here is ofcourse smaller. Urban is mainstream in the clubs. And because trance is my thing, I started DJ-ing, because else I couldn’t enjoy my favourite music style. And offcourse, I also like Marco V’s style. I got his last Combi:Nations CD: great sound. If you know something new from him or other hot tech trance tune, please post it here.

But because over the past decade the number of interns from the Netherlands is growing, the dance music scene here is also developing. Those Dutch girls and boys are having the time of their life. The advantage for them is that we speak the same language, because here was a Dutch colony. By the way here was also a former English colony, because the Brits were here before the Dutch. That’s why there is left hand traffic here. Maybe it’s time for me to push for a residency in a club, cuz I may be the best trance DJ in this region. Because I’m the only serious one, haha.

O.k., it’s time to get back on topic. The mods were pretty serious about this the past few weeks. But beside serious DJ stuff, the philosophy of this forum is to make DJ friends all over the world, so I think we can get away with a little chit chat. As long as you keep asking intelligent questions and we both keep the quality of this discussion high.

All mixers we’ve mentioned till now comply with your set of requirements. You should be more specific if you’re still not sure. But if I read between the lines you favour the DJM-600. Well it is not true the DJM-600 is that much worse than the Xone:62. The specs of the latter are a bit better though: eg.

Total harmonic distortion rate
DJM-600 …………….. Below 0.02%
Xone:62  …………….. Below 0.006% THD+noise @1kHz

But improvements below 0.02% you already can’t hear. So, it’s correct that for bedroom use you won’t hear the slightest difference. And if you really know what you’re doing you won’t even notice differences on big PA systems. The strange thing with sound quality is that an expensive system with good specs with someone who doesn’t know what he’s doing always sounds worse than a cheaper system with someone who knows what he’s doing.

But lets run through your ToR:

1. Solidity. DJM-600 scores great, as long as you handle it with due care.

2. Flexibility / abilty to further creativity. DJM-600 scores reasonable depending on your set up. It has sampler plus onboard efx. Using the send / return for an external effector you can add more efx. But you can’t assign 1 effect on more than one channel because of the rotating selector knob. You also can’t assign more than 1 effect to a channel. There are mixers that can do both. Depends on the rest of your ToR if this is acceptable or not. Remember the trade offs. Did you see the set up in the James Zabiela EFX-1000 demo movie? But if you just want to use efx during breaks or climax of tracks or to spice up a transition te DJM-600 will do. If you also want to make own synths/melodies during the whole track you're limited. And you can also connect an EFX-500/1000 on each important channel.

3. Sound quality. DJM-600 scores good. As long as you know how to set the sound levels of your whole system. And if the rest of your equipment is a good match with it. And if you don’t want the digital sound of DJM-800.

4. FX. DJM-600 scores good, because it packs a lot of efx. But DJM-400 and DJM-800 do better. Also the filter doesn’t compare to those of the DJM-800 or the Xone series.

5. Gaurantee is a big deal. Pioneer offers reasonable guarantees. Just check for yourself if your retailer is an official Pioneer dealer.

6. Appearance does matter. I like the black one. Fits the colour of the CDJ’s. But it’s a personal matter.

7. Motivation is important. Euhm! What I meant is if you’re in for the music or for the gear? Or both? If you’re in for the gear, say fashion is your thing. So you’re a collector of DJ gear with a big fat bank account, you should buy a DJM-800. Period! Don’t bother with ToR’s. Remember, you work hard for your money, so you should be happy with the things you buy and nobody else. Also you can't hold anyone responsible if you're not happy with the mixer you will choose. But own motivation is also an good issue.

8. An SP 202 sampler must add to the mixer. DJM-600 already has a sampler. Do you need it double? But you can add it through the send/return.

9. No scratching, music is tech trance Marco V style, so fader options don’t bother greatly. DJM-600 scores well, because it has cross fader options which you may not wish use. But some DJ’s use those, when beatmixing, for subtle changes in channel volumes without affecting the master volume level. Maybe you also want to apply this technique in the future.

10. Reasonable price. DJM-600 scores reasonable in your eyes.

So what do you think now? Works for you? Or should you consider running your ToR through a few other mixers?

My opinion on the use of efx in a DJ’s set is that it should only be done by seasoned, talented DJ’s. Pressing and turning knobs is something everybody can do. But to make the music sound better than the original with efx, you must be talented. Offcourse it will take a lot of practice to understand what will happen if you apply efx. And because it’s hard to predict the final sound you should dedicate a lot of time for experimenting with efx for almost every new track you’re getting. So, efx are very time consuming in my opinion. Also efx mustn’t be applied too much.

I think the DJM-800 is a great mixer. I would like to have both mixers, but it would cost too much and if you’re on your own, you also have other priorities. And the Xone fits my needs a little bit better. But am I right you’re trying to get my ToR for a mixer, that had lead to the selection of the Xone:92?

In the future I intend to use efx, but on a small scale, because I don’t have much time to experiment. Also efx are less important to me than for you, it's on the lists of trade offs. For now I still consider myself a beginner. I’m mastering the application of EQ. This is important to me, as I like smooth mixes and the Xone:92 has 4 band EQ, which is more difficult to handle.

My plans for now, is to buy 2 Stanton C.314 cd decks, before the end of this year and the Xone:92 at the end of next year. The C.314 has a few onboard efx as well as 4 samplers, so I don’t need onboard efx on my mixer or an external effector.


Then I would have something that looks a little bit like this (without laptop):

Stanton deck and xone mixer














I would also like to be able to use a set of filter fx on one track and cue another track with another set of filter efx at the same time. You can do this only with the Xone:92.

Another thing is that some mixer manufacturers are featuring matrix inputs. With this you can assign 1 input source to more than 1 line channel of the mixer. This enables you to do some nice things with the EQ pots of the several channels combined with the crossfader on a particular track. With 2 sends on the Xone:92 you can do the same efx as with matrix inputs.


Tic Toc
User edit by Winston on 24-07-2006 @ 14:25:41 (1%)


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